Hopbot log for 2007-11-29 - Helma IRC channel: #helma on irc.freenode.net

2007-11-29:

[5:27] <philmaker> Here is some neato stuff: http://research.sun.com/projects/lively/index.html
[5:27] <philmaker> off topic but some neato stuff
[5:29] <philmaker> The code name for this project was "Project Flair" - a friend of mine pointed me to the research page on Sun's website.
[5:30] <philmaker> It's apparently now called Lively.
[6:04] <philmaker> http://www.sdtimes.com/article/latestnews-20071001-13.html
[6:14] <philmaker> I'm not as impressed with this as my expectations led me to anticipate. Basically has similarities to Flex: e.g Flex is based on Flash, Lively is based on SVG.
[6:14] <philmaker> However, Flex apps require compiling - Lively apps do not.
[6:15] <philmaker> The Flash runtime is more ubiquitous that SVG I think too.
[6:15] <philmaker> Oh well, back to Helma....
[7:33] <zumbrunn> hi philmaker
[7:33] <philmaker> hi chris
[7:33] <zumbrunn> the "navigation" in gobi is just a page called "navigation"
[7:34] <zumbrunn> which can contain macros or whatever to build the nav you need
[7:35] <philmaker> oh ok
[7:35] <zumbrunn> btw, there was an interesting document regarding lively, where the team shared there experiences using javascript as a programming language
[7:35] <philmaker> in the exitsing navigation.skin, it calls <% include name="navigation" %>
[7:35] <zumbrunn> interesting in the context of the ongoing ES4 debate
[7:35] <philmaker> I found navigation_macro() but it never seesm to get called.
[7:36] <philmaker> Are you just suggesting that I custom configure the entire navigation.skin and replace with whatever I wish?
[7:37] <zumbrunn> first, just create a page called "navigation" ones
[7:37] <philmaker> re: interesting document regarding lively (send me a link if you find it)
[7:37] <zumbrunn> I believe whatever you put in the body of that page will show up in the nav
[7:38] <zumbrunn> (that's what the <% include name="navigation" %> part does)
[7:38] <zumbrunn> I'm looking for the link
[7:38] <philmaker> ok - I need to study skins and macros more - sorry
[7:38] <zumbrunn> I thought I blogged about it, but apparently I only wanted to
[7:39] <philmaker> <% include name="navigation" %> is expecting to include another skin named navigation or what?
[7:39] <philmaker> because the file that is in - is already named navigation.skin
[7:40] <zumbrunn> did you create a page called "navigation"?
[7:40] <philmaker> no suffix?
[7:40] <philmaker> ah
[7:40] <philmaker> in the wiki
[7:41] <zumbrunn> right
[7:41] <philmaker> I think I has tried that already
[7:41] <philmaker> created a wiki page named 'navigation' at root?
[7:41] <zumbrunn> put "hello world" in the body of that page
[7:41] <zumbrunn> yes
[7:41] <philmaker> ok
[7:42] <zumbrunn> just a page
[7:42] <zumbrunn> doesn't need to be a wiki
[7:42] <philmaker> thank you zumbrunn
[7:43] <philmaker> still attempting...
[7:44] <philmaker> to review: are you saying to create a file on disk - or a wiki page named navigation?
[7:45] <zumbrunn> <% include name="navigation" %> should show the body of the page called "navigation"
[7:45] <zumbrunn> a page of type page
[7:45] <zumbrunn> created via the web
[7:45] <philmaker> well ok - that was easy and it worked
[7:45] <philmaker> thanks
[7:46] <zumbrunn> re: config and forms, I don't know what to tell you
[7:46] <zumbrunn> you need to ask more specifically, I guess
[7:46] <philmaker> I understand
[7:47] <zumbrunn> if I remember correctly, forms is a subsection of config
[7:47] <zumbrunn> so is skins etc
[7:47] <philmaker> right
[7:48] <philmaker> for example, does config/skins allow one to override the wiki's skins?
[7:48] <zumbrunn> and I guess the simple answer is that all the different config sections allow you to define/configure the behavior of hopobject prototypes via the web
[7:48] <zumbrunn> yes
[7:49] <zumbrunn> it allows you to override what you have defined in code
[7:49] <zumbrunn> in that way, gobi and openmocha are similar
[7:50] <philmaker> I do like OpenMocha but I'm taking everything one step at a time.
[7:50] <zumbrunn> openmocha is totally out of date
[7:50] <zumbrunn> I need to update it
[7:51] <zumbrunn> it won't even run with current helma builds
[7:51] <philmaker> I'm really just trying to get something up on my site so I can do some writing remotely (and also w/o spamming the Helma wiki)
[7:51] <zumbrunn> right, I don't mind the spamming, though
[7:52] <philmaker> I probably could use something more CMS related but a wiki will do
[7:53] <philmaker> This is a simple Java related CMS tool I have across this year. It is pretty neat - may seem a little unpolsihed perhaps but I think it is neat
[7:53] <philmaker> http://www.openedit.com/
[7:54] <philmaker> The spamming doesn't bother me too much in my little workspace there - but they do get returned in search results
[7:55] <zumbrunn> and in the rss feed
[7:55] <philmaker> ;-P
[7:55] <zumbrunn> (which is broken anyway, as hypersmil pointed out)
[7:56] <philmaker> Joshua mentioned in an email to me that he was interested in exporting integrating CouchDB and Helma. Sounds like he might be one of my new friends too.
[7:56] <philmaker> integrating
[7:57] <zumbrunn> yes, that sounds interesting
[7:57] <philmaker> I was hoping to do something CouchDB like with Helma inself but maybe tieing them together may work - I don't know.
[7:57] <zumbrunn> would be cool as a backend for openmocha
[7:59] <zumbrunn> another interesting data backend would be using lucene
[7:59] <zumbrunn> using it as a document store instead of just an index
[7:59] <philmaker> hmmm- didn't know that was possible. What does that allow?
[8:00] <philmaker> What about jackrabbit?
[8:00] <zumbrunn> yeah, jackrabbit is another interesting direction
[8:01] <zumbrunn> ideally, we would have a helma core environment that can work with all these data backends
[8:01] <philmaker> Do youu have a favorite wiki software? I do like Gobi in general and because it is based on Helma. But otherwise I do like MoinMoin.
[8:01] <philmaker> There's mediawiki of course.
[8:01] <philmaker> I guess I'm looking for style, simplicity, usability
[8:01] <zumbrunn> I just use openmocha for my projects
[8:02] <zumbrunn> expect for some cases where I'm trying gobi
[8:04] <zumbrunn> found it...
[8:04] <zumbrunn> Using JavaScript as a Real Programming Language
[8:04] <zumbrunn> http://research.sun.com/techrep/2007/abstract-168.html
[8:05] <philmaker> excellent
[8:06] <philmaker> that's awesome - thanks... reading
[8:08] <philmaker> I had been waiting for more details on "Project Flair" (Lively) for months, lively came out over a month ago, and everyone I know knows about it before I do. Lame.
[8:08] <philmaker> :-)
[8:09] <zumbrunn> heh
[8:11] <philmaker> It's interesting to me that that artcile refers to Tamarin (which is based on code provided by Adobe)
[8:12] <philmaker> and how that Lively could be in competition with Flex
[8:12] <philmaker> perhaps
[8:13] <philmaker> however lively is focued more on being dynamic
[8:31] <saikko> CouchDB and Helma integration - that would be great :)
[9:28] <philmaker> Hi saikko - have a great day - I'm off to sleep but I'll see you later
[9:29] <philmaker> see ya soon zumbrunn
[9:29] <zumbrunn> good night philmaker
[23:42] <zenpsycho> Date comparisons in type.properties filters
[23:42] <zenpsycho> !! apparently doesn't work. Am I doing something horrible wrong, or was this use just not anticipated?

 

 

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